Europe’s Innovation Agenda for Energy Startups and Scaleups in 2026

00:00:02: Empowering Tomorrow, the podcast from VERBUND X.

00:00:14: There is, uh, no, or little innovation without energy.

00:00:19: The most impact, uh, with, with immediate impact will be the Scale Up Europe Fund.

00:00:24: Welcome to Empowering Tomorrow, the podcast from VERBUND X. Together with

00:00:30: top experts, we explore the future of energy in Europe, we talk about

00:00:33: innovations, technologies, and bold initiatives that are already shaping

00:00:38: a sustainable energy future today.

00:00:41: How can we reach a climate neutral Europe?

00:00:43: How can we close the innovation gap?

00:00:46: These are the questions we'll tackle in this podcast.

00:00:49: My name is Franz Zöchbauer.

00:00:51: I'm the managing director for VERBUND X, the innovation and venture unit of

00:00:55: VERBUND, Austria's leading energy company.

00:00:59: Let's get started. This season, we are looking ahead under the

00:01:03: guiding theme, what's ahead in 2026.

00:01:07: Focusing on the decisions being made today that will define Europe's competitiveness,

00:01:11: innovation capacity, and energy decision

00:01:14: tomorrow. At today's episode,we go straight to the core of that question, how Europe

00:01:20: is redesigning its innovation framework to help startups and scale ups move

00:01:24: from great ideas to global impact.

00:01:27: I am Franz Zöchbauer, Managing Director of VERBUND X, and I'm very pleased and delighted to

00:01:32: welcome today's guest, Ann-Sofie Ronnlund.

00:01:34: Welcome Ann-Sofie.

00:01:36: It's great to have you with us.

00:01:37: Ann-Sofie's member of the Cabinet of the EU Commissioner for Startups, Research

00:01:41: and Innovation, Ekaterina Zaharieva.

00:01:44: From this position, she works at the heart of Europe's innovation policy making,

00:01:48: shaping regulatory frameworks contributing to the European Energy Innovation

00:01:53: Act, and help define how startups and scale up can grow across Europe.

00:01:59: Ann-Sofies's career spans from the European Parliament, several directors generals

00:02:03: of the European Commission and the private sector of Nokia, giving her a

00:02:06: uniquely holistic view on how policy, technology and market intersects.

00:02:11: So Ann-Sofie, it's really great to have you on the podcast today and it's also

00:02:14: great reconnect after welcoming you as a guest and a keynote speaker at the

00:02:18: VERBUND Venture Day in Autumn 2025, where you spoke about closing the innovation gap.

00:02:24: To start off, um, let's go

00:02:27: a little bit behind, uh, the title and, uh, Ann-Sofie,

00:02:31: could you briefly share your personal path into EU policy making and

00:02:34: innovation policy, and also what keeps you motivated in, in this focus?

00:02:40: Yes, yes.

00:02:41: It's innovation is really something that I have been, uh, circulating

00:02:45: around during my whole professional career, almost you could say.

00:02:49: Um, you mentioned already that I have a past in, in Nokia indeed with the

00:02:53: technology at, at, uh, at, at the peak of, of that technology boom.

00:02:58: And it got me really

00:03:00: interested in, uh, and, and seeing the importance of this innovation,

00:03:04: how technology drives innovation.

00:03:06: Um, then later, I, I joined, uh, the European Commission, that's now 20 years

00:03:10: ago already, so quite, quite some time.

00:03:13: And here I have been working on, uh, on the research.

00:03:16: So starting from research how you, you enable research into many, many fields.

00:03:21: And from that, um, develop technologies further.

00:03:25: Um, I've been working also in cybersecurity in a period when that was

00:03:29: emerging.

00:03:30: That was now 10 years ago.

00:03:32: It was emerging on the policy map, uh, at, at that stage.

00:03:35: And now, um, the same happens to innovation.

00:03:39: Somehow I see that, uh, innovation now has become finally a topic that really

00:03:44: is, uh, at, at the, at the eyes of, of, uh, politicians

00:03:50: at the, at the highest level.

00:03:52: So the strategic role and understanding of innovation, technological development

00:03:57: has, uh, has, has become very important.

00:04:00: And, and for me, therefore, it's, it's very, very interesting and,

00:04:04: uh, and that really motivates me to, to really be part of this shaping

00:04:08: now that it has become, uh, such an important priority for, for Europe.

00:04:12: And, uh, um, and to make this happen for, for our businesses, for our economy, but

00:04:18: also for our strategic, uh, autonomy.

00:04:21: Okay.

00:04:21: Ann-Sofie, you mentioned so that you started your career at Nokia.

00:04:25: How much this experience in Nokia helps you now understanding the

00:04:29: economic and, and, and the business part.

00:04:31: Is that helpful nowadays as well?

00:04:33: Very much.

00:04:35: Yes, very, very much.

00:04:36: It, it, uh, still, even if this experience, uh, as I said,

00:04:39: uh, is, uh, 20 years, uh, ago, but, um, many of the mechanisms

00:04:45: clearly are, are, are still there.

00:04:47: Um, how, uh, industrial, uh, needs, uh, depend on, on early technological, uh,

00:04:55: developments from, from researchers.

00:04:59: And how ideas go via and, uh, innovation, uh, chain through many, many steps.

00:05:05: Uh, sometimes they leap steps, uh, in particular the, the, the digital ones, uh,

00:05:12: and, and those that are, um, only virtual if we wish, uh, around gaming, around,

00:05:18: uh, um, platforms, uh, apps and so on.

00:05:22: It goes very, very quickly.

00:05:24: So that has

00:05:25: Um, changed a little bit.

00:05:27: It has become much faster than, than, um, when I saw it from,

00:05:33: from the inside, uh, let's say.

00:05:35: Um, but in, in many other sectors, and I think the energy sector is an, is

00:05:40: an example of that where, uh, where innovation still need to be integrated,

00:05:45: uh, into many, sometimes complex systems.

00:05:49: Uh, infrastructures need to be built, uh, and adapted, um, different mechanisms

00:05:56: for, for including users, uh, or energy providers or energy users into this,

00:06:02: uh, system, uh, the pricing of it.

00:06:04: Um, all of these take, uh, quite some time in, in a sector like energy and,

00:06:10: and others like, uh, health, uh, um, and, and so on where medicines need to be

00:06:17: validated through many steps.

00:06:19: Uh, so, so there are different parts, uh, of, of this, uh,

00:06:22: innovation in different sectors.

00:06:24: And, and I think energy is, is is one that, uh, uh, that combines this, um,

00:06:29: uh, uh, on the one hand, a traditional industrial setting with the, with the

00:06:36: very costly infrastructures that take long to, to recoup and with

00:06:41: the need to, to update them as well, uh, even more faster with, uh, with,

00:06:47: with new, uh, interfaces, digital interfaces, managing the energy systems

00:06:51: with digital, uh, systems and AI now.

00:06:54: So it, it, uh, it is an interesting combination of, uh

00:06:58: of, of new and old innovation, I would say.

00:07:01: Yeah.

00:07:01: Um, Ann-Sofie,

00:07:02: now you are really in the, in the center of, uh, policymaking

00:07:05: for Europe and, and that that's quite, um, uh, important nowadays.

00:07:10: Um, and 2026 keeps upcoming as a defining year.

00:07:14: Um, why is this moment, uh, from your point of view, so

00:07:17: critical for Europe's innovation, competitiveness, and energy landscape?

00:07:21: Um, what's your perspective on the year to come now?

00:07:24: Well, first of all, because innovation and energy are linked.

00:07:28: There is, uh, no, or little innovation without energy.

00:07:32: We see it with AI now.

00:07:35: Uh, AI is, is very energy, um, has high energy appetite.

00:07:41: Uh, in particular now that it is evolving.

00:07:44: Uh, a lot of, uh, training of the AI.

00:07:47: A lot of, uh, uh, yeah, I mean, uh, nuclear power plants are being, uh

00:07:53: reactivated again or set up again to, to, as an example of, uh, of

00:07:58: energy systems that we were in Europe, but also another parts of the

00:08:03: world going through a certain path.

00:08:05: Uh, um, and that path has now to be redo because the energy needs suddenly

00:08:10: are, are, are increasing, uh, with AI, with other, uh, other systems, with

00:08:16: the data, data centers that go around, uh, AI and our general digitization.

00:08:22: So this whole, uh, first of all, the, the digital innovation depends on energy.

00:08:27: It's very much linked to energy as well.

00:08:29: So first of all, I would say that that is an, uh, interesting and important

00:08:34: perspective, um, and, um, makes the discussions about, uh, energy prices,

00:08:40: energy availability, so important for, for competitiveness, of course

00:08:44: in general, for manufacturing and so on, but also for, for innovation and,

00:08:49: uh, and the understanding of, uh

00:08:51: how in Europe, what is our situation in this regard with, with the

00:08:56: access to energy, with energy prices and so on, uh, is, is important.

00:09:01: And, and they are actually quite,

00:09:04: Uh, quite different than an, a big nuance in this situation with regard

00:09:08: to energy, uh, even in Europe.

00:09:10: Um, that is, uh, um, not always maybe on, on, on, on the top of everyone's mind.

00:09:17: And, and it's important if we take an European perspective to,

00:09:20: to know where we have strengths and more, uh, weaker situations.

00:09:25: But, but the, the overall certainties that we need to take care to have

00:09:31: good energy, uh, access, uh, prices, um, sustainable at the same time,

00:09:38: um, in order to, to have a good starting point also for innovation.

00:09:44: So I would start maybe with this.

00:09:45: Uh, um, so it is crucial from that point of view that we look

00:09:50: at both innovation and energy.

00:09:53: Then when it comes to innovation, um.

00:09:56: Um, itself, let's say, um, it 2026 is a very, very important year because,

00:10:02: because of this acceleration that I mentioned of, of innovation in general

00:10:06: and in particular if it has an, an, uh, a digital, um, angle, um, this acceleration

00:10:13: puts, uh, a lot of new demands on our capability in, in Europe to, to face this.

00:10:19: Uh, we are very used to collaborating, uh, when it comes to research.

00:10:24: Um, we have a very good situation by now thanks to actions we have taken

00:10:30: in the past years on, on the situation of startups in Europe in general.

00:10:34: We have a good startup, uh, web and community in energy,

00:10:39: but also in other sectors.

00:10:41: Um, and now they're in a situation where

00:10:45: they need to, to, to take the next step and we need to break the, the, the next,

00:10:49: uh, glass ceiling I would say, which is to go to really bigger scale up.

00:10:56: The ability to scale up, um, our startups in Europe and the ability to give them

00:11:01: the perspective that they have a quick commercialization path in Europe.

00:11:07: Um, so this has, has many, many angles to it.

00:11:11: It has, uh, a financing angle.

00:11:13: We need to have necessary capital for that sufficient capital.

00:11:19: We need to have, uh, sufficiently mature technologies enabled to take them through

00:11:24: different steps of, uh, testing, um, creating, uh, standards around them,

00:11:30: creating, uh, uh, systems for making sure that they are conformed to be

00:11:36: integrated into, into their environment.

00:11:38: So in the energy, for instance, as I mentioned, it has many, many standards

00:11:42: and conformities around it to, to apply.

00:11:47: Um, and, um, and, and lastly, to have a regulatory environment that is

00:11:53: welcoming these new, uh, uh, new technologies.

00:11:57: So there are, I would say three, three important strands to, to work

00:12:01: on in parallel and at European level

00:12:03: that is what we are,

00:12:04: What we're actually doing as well.

00:12:06: And we'll be ramping this up with, uh, even more speed and

00:12:10: scale in 2026. Okay, great,

00:12:12: to have this clear position from, from your point of view.

00:12:16: Um, last, um, last Autumn, I was also at the IEA Energy Innovation

00:12:21: Forum in Toronto, and I took with me one important sentence:

00:12:25: Um, the new long term is six months.

00:12:28: So it's about all speeding up.

00:12:30: Um, so it's really this, uh, acceleration path you mentioned before.

00:12:34: That's, um, utmost important for you also really soon to be fast in Europe.

00:12:40: Concerning new innovation, concerning new corporations, that's really one

00:12:43: of your core drivers for this year.

00:12:46: Yes, it is really getting the speed, so getting speedier at, uh, when we support

00:12:54: Startup, scale ups, or, or, or companies in general, which we do, uh, for, uh,

00:13:00: for cooperation to, to conduct research.

00:13:03: This happens not only in universities or in some academic settings far from it.

00:13:10: Uh, research is something that happens very much in, uh, in the private sector.

00:13:14: And, and they're very much part of, uh, of, uh, of, uh, the, the research

00:13:20: program we have at EU level as well.

00:13:22: So research is supported at national, but also at EU level.

00:13:26: And the cross country collaboration in particular at at EU level through,

00:13:30: through our Horizon Europe program.

00:13:33: So we are looking at speeding up, and, and that is a big priority for,

00:13:36: for Commissioner Zaharieva that I work for, is to really see to that, uh

00:13:40: the granting of, uh, of this support, financial support and funding happens

00:13:46: more quickly, uh, because now we take too much time in, uh, in, uh, setting

00:13:52: the frame for what is the technology that needs support at this moment.

00:13:57: Uh, uh, so a lot of discussions, uh, consultations around, around this that

00:14:02: can go, uh, quite much in detail with the...

00:14:07: Uh, we have, of course, our member states are interested to know, uh,

00:14:10: that, that it covers technologies they think are important and, and private

00:14:15: sector for sure is also engaged in, in, uh, formulating, uh, strategic

00:14:19: research and innovation agendas.

00:14:22: And, and, uh, they have their view also on what, what is the

00:14:25: critical need at the moment.

00:14:26: What, what needs public support in terms of research, uh, funding.

00:14:30: So all of this has, uh, has led to a situation where it,

00:14:33: it now takes, uh, too long.

00:14:36: It can take, um, uh, one or sometimes two years before,

00:14:41: uh, since, uh, a need occurs.

00:14:44: We, we see, or, or, rather the, the, the researchers, uh, see that

00:14:50: there is a need to take the next step

00:14:52: now there's a new development we need to adapt, uh, uh, adapt it

00:14:57: and, and, and it can take up to two years before there is a concrete

00:15:01: funding opportunity on that topic.

00:15:04: So it's something we need to really

00:15:06: Uh, compress, make shorter something we call, uh, time to grant in in

00:15:11: this, um, uh, in this context.

00:15:15: And, uh, the same goes of course for, for Startup, scale up funding.

00:15:18: We also have programs that support individually startups.

00:15:23: Uh.

00:15:24: And scale ups entrepreneurs.

00:15:26: Um, and, and there is a rigorous selection as well here, uh, based,

00:15:31: uh, really on, on, on excellence.

00:15:33: And there is a, a, a tough competition because the funds are,

00:15:38: are, um, are too limited still.

00:15:40: And, and, and we are planning.

00:15:42: Um, and the commissioner, Zaharieva has proposed that this be

00:15:46: considerably increased for the next

00:15:48: financing period, uh, uh, the, in the EU budget, uh, the next one, um, to

00:15:54: be able to fund more of these, uh, really excellent, excellent proposals.

00:16:00: We have from, from startups and, and, and scale ups in Europe.

00:16:03: There is a lot of, lot of technological development and capacity to, to,

00:16:08: to make this happen in Europe.

00:16:10: Um, and this process is, is more tailor made to

00:16:15: entrepreneurs.

00:16:16: So it is already already faster.

00:16:18: But also there, we, we definitely think we, we need to continuously

00:16:22: look again how we, how we support the private sector, um, uh, faster than,

00:16:28: than, than we did yesterday, knowing that it, it gets shorter all the time.

00:16:32: So, um, the goalpost moves.

00:16:35: Um, so this is on the, on the acting faster in our funding support than this

00:16:41: Uh.

00:16:42: scaling up that I mentioned, which is so critical now.

00:16:45: It is such a big gap that Europe, uh, faces to be able to fund rounds for

00:16:52: future unicorns or those that are, are getting to the unicorn stage, which

00:16:56: need, uh, funding rounds of, uh, uh, in total of hundreds of millions and

00:17:02: where the, where the EU budget can come in and support a part of it.

00:17:06: Uh, and um, from 30, 50 up to, uh, to close to a hundred million in some cases.

00:17:14: Um.

00:17:15: And, and this is what the plan is that we need to scale up, uh, to be able to

00:17:20: support with bigger rounds, and also to be able to leverage, uh, um, Venture Capital

00:17:26: institutional investors that are ready to put, uh, uh, equal amounts and, and, uh.

00:17:34: And leading to a leverage of, of the EU funding, which,

00:17:36: uh, reaches five, 10 times.

00:17:38: Uh, and, and this is how we will get to really big, uh, financing

00:17:41: rounds in, in, uh, in Europe.

00:17:44: So this is what, uh, what is being done through something we call Scale

00:17:47: up Europe fund, uh, which we are setting up, uh, under the, under

00:17:52: the leadership of Commissioner Zaharieva.

00:17:54: And in the record time, it, it started, uh, uh, less than a year ago.

00:17:59: And, and will be operational, uh, well within a year, you could say.

00:18:03: And this is really, really, really, really fast.

00:18:05: If you look at, uh, an, an, an EU context.

00:18:08: Yeah.

00:18:09: Very, maybe that's best cast and brings some EU policies

00:18:13: in practice within one year.

00:18:14: That's really impressive.

00:18:15: Congratulations to that.

00:18:17: And, um.

00:18:18: Um, Ann-Sofie, um, last, last October, you also joined us on Venture Day.

00:18:24: When we discussed on the issue of Closing the innovation gap, you contributed with the

00:18:27: keynote and in, in panel discussions.

00:18:30: Uh, you have been in direct contacts with, with founders, corporates and

00:18:32: investors, um, in Austria at that time.

00:18:35: What insights, uh, from that experience did you also take

00:18:38: back into your daily work?

00:18:39: Uh, in Brussels, uh, if you look back? There were two important insights.

00:18:44: One was, um, again, the, the, the impressive, uh

00:18:49: technological innovations and research and innovations that I,

00:18:52: that I saw really new forms of, uh, storing energy in new forms

00:18:57: of, uh, batteries, for instance.

00:18:59: Uh, uh, which, um, which were very, very impressive.

00:19:03: And that, uh, in my mind opens up, uh, completely new avenues

00:19:08: for, uh, for, uh, storing,

00:19:12: Uh, forms that are today difficult to store, like, you know, like hydrogen

00:19:16: or different, uh, solar, uh, energy, renewable energy ,that could be, be

00:19:21: stored and used in new contexts.

00:19:23: Um, so, uh, instead of only the large installations that we have today, I

00:19:28: mean only, it's not only that's already important, but, uh, but to, to bring

00:19:32: this renewable into a future perspective where they could be maybe in consumables.

00:19:37: Uh, in other smaller devices and, and, uh, allow us to, to use energy

00:19:44: efficiently and at the same time in a green and sustainable way.

00:19:47: So, uh, I found that very, very inspiring and, uh, and, uh, think it's, it's

00:19:53: important to continue updating our, our technological roadmaps that we have.

00:19:59: They are at, at national level, at uh, and they also are at, at

00:20:04: European level with this kind of,

00:20:06: perspectives, um, so that we can adapt, uh, the way that we support the ecosystem

00:20:14: and our programming at, uh, at EU level and also the regulatory side to, to

00:20:19: be open to these new innovations when they mature and come closer to market.

00:20:24: So that was one.

00:20:25: Uh, the other important, uh, takeaway that I have was, was really with how,

00:20:31: with your help, um, the,

00:20:35: the venture capital, the scaling up, uh, is taking importance in, um, in Austria

00:20:41: and, and, and in your, with the, with the help of, and, and

00:20:47: the national, uh, initiatives and the, the government to, to, to really focus

00:20:53: on the funding that comes after the, the, the academia and the university funding.

00:20:59: Uh, and um, and also the

00:21:03: the slight paradox that I could see that Austria struggles with today, which is

00:21:07: very common in Europe, but also clearly is the case in Austria, is that despite

00:21:12: excellent research, there is no automatism in being excellent in innovation.

00:21:16: It needs other types of efforts.

00:21:18: And, uh, and, and this is what I'm, uh, involved in preparing

00:21:22: through this European Innovation Act that you mentioned.

00:21:25: It is exactly to, to connect the dots, what needs to happen

00:21:28: after our excellent research.

00:21:30: So that we have faster commercialization in, in Europe.

00:21:33: So there were very really concrete takeaways and then very inspiring

00:21:36: day that I, that I attended with you.

00:21:39: Okay, thanks.

00:21:40: Ann-Sofie it was really, uh, very valuable for our participants, to have

00:21:44: you with us, um, at that day.

00:21:46: Um, you mentioned already some, um, initiatives of the European Commission

00:21:51: and if you look on 2026, um, which of the EU innovation startup policies do you

00:21:57: expect have the greatest impact, uh, on energy Climate Tech companies by 2026?

00:22:02: So.

00:22:03: Do you have some, uh, some choices in this respect?

00:22:05: Yes.

00:22:06: I would say the, the most impact, uh, with, with immediate impact

00:22:09: will be the Scale Up Europe fund.

00:22:12: Definitely.

00:22:12: I mean the, the, uh, with the speed it is being put in place with the,

00:22:16: with the speed that the, we see also that the needs are out there.

00:22:21: All those, uh, startups that have reached a certain level and are, are, are.

00:22:26: Want to stay in Europe.

00:22:28: They want to attract also, um, uh, new investments and talent to Europe and, and

00:22:34: they need, uh, and they need help in that.

00:22:36: So that is something that will really in, in, in, in many of these technology fields

00:22:42: that are groundbreaking and deep tech, like clean energy, like, uh, biotech,

00:22:48: like, uh, AI, quantum, where we are all at the stage that we have, uh.

00:22:54: We still have a chance in Europe.

00:22:56: We, but we need to do it faster and we need to, to, to scale and have a, uh,

00:23:02: ecosystem that, uh, that, uh, that these scaling companies can, can rely on.

00:23:07: Um, so that will have the

00:23:09: the most immediate impact, clearly in 2026.

00:23:13: Then this European Innovation Act that I mentioned, uh, this will have its

00:23:18: commission proposal in 2026, rather actually now in, in spring already.

00:23:24: Um, but that is, uh, a legislative proposal.

00:23:27: So it is something that needs to go through the, the, the

00:23:30: negotiation between, uh, member states and the European Parliament.

00:23:34: So the parliamentarians.

00:23:35: So this will take, uh

00:23:38: take some time, uh, hopefully that also will be done, uh, in a year.

00:23:42: I mean, it, it's doable when everybody, uh, is, uh, is, is around

00:23:46: the table and agree on the objective.

00:23:49: Um, and, uh, also because there is another initiative that is very

00:23:53: closely related to this Innovation Act, which, which is called the,

00:23:57: the, the 28th Regime or the EU Inc.

00:24:00: Which is on how the company form, how the company law, um

00:24:07: would better serve the, the, the interest and the needs of startups

00:24:11: and scale ups so they don't have to establish in several member states.

00:24:15: They can, they can do it once and it'll be recognized elsewhere in Europe

00:24:20: and they will be able to, to, um.

00:24:24: run their company and scale their company more quickly and, and go European and

00:24:28: go global straight away, basically.

00:24:30: So, um, yeah.

00:24:32: And thanks Ann-Sofie for, for highlighting this,

00:24:34: Yes.

00:24:35: for highlighting this is on focus on scaling and, uh,

00:24:37: that's really important, uh, to scale and also on EU Inc. I think

00:24:41: could be an important contribution.

00:24:42: So we also discusses a lot in Austria.

00:24:45: And, and, um, yeah.

00:24:46: Great that you're pushing forward on this with so much energy.

00:24:50: Um, if, if you're speaking about scaling, uh, and scaling up, it

00:24:55: also maybe a question where you see Europe's strongest opportunities to

00:24:58: lead global in the energy Transition?

00:25:00: Yeah.

00:25:00: Uh, do you see some fields where we can lead and also maybe where Europe

00:25:04: has to catch up in this respect?

00:25:07: Uh, yes, it can lead.

00:25:08: Um, I would, again, give two examples where I see, uh, one, which is, um, um,

00:25:17: linking back to this innovation and energy being linked and, uh, digital innovation

00:25:22: and energy being linked where there is now, um, a clear development, uh, to, to

00:25:30: have more, um, more and more data centers.

00:25:33: And on top of that cloud,

00:25:36: services that are, are, are based in Europe, uh, because of different

00:25:40: needs, uh, because of the, well, the geopolitical context has given

00:25:44: its, its push for that.

00:25:46: Um.

00:25:47: And, and the realization in that in Europe we, we want to be, be sure that

00:25:52: our data is handled according to our rules and, and, uh, so we want to be in

00:25:57: charge of our data more geographically as well, and build our own clouds.

00:26:02: It is something that comes from, from users, but also from

00:26:05: industries and from governments.

00:26:07: So there is a, uh, a big need for that.

00:26:12: Uh, and clearly there will be.

00:26:14: We are seeing more such establishments in Europe.

00:26:17: And while doing that, um, there is also a big energy angle to it because the

00:26:23: more energy efficient such data centers are from the outset and, um, and using

00:26:31: Uh, components, systems that are configured to be as energy

00:26:36: efficient as as possible.

00:26:39: Um, and there are such technologies that are, are actually made in Europe, uh,

00:26:44: are being, uh, um, scaled in Europe.

00:26:48: And if there is a demand.

00:26:50: From, from those that deploy.

00:26:53: And that's something that from European commission side, we want to,

00:26:55: we want to push, we want to create a demand via different procurements,

00:27:00: public, but also hopefully private.

00:27:02: Having private actors to, to look at, uh, not only price, but

00:27:06: looking also at energy efficiency.

00:27:09: Looking at, uh, the quality that, uh.

00:27:13: And that such, uh, data centers, cloud services, uh, can provide.

00:27:17: So there, there is a win-win there for, for energy, uh, solutions, energy

00:27:23: efficient components, um, and, and, and so on to, to, to build upon.

00:27:30: Um, the other one, which is, uh, a bit more, maybe medium and long

00:27:36: term is, um, is for hydrogen.

00:27:41: I would say this is a technology that we have, uh, long been

00:27:43: developing in, in Europe, uh, through different, uh, efforts.

00:27:47: It has great potential today that it is, uh,

00:27:53: if not fully green, at least blue.

00:27:56: So we have this hydrogen, which is, which needs in itself a

00:28:00: lot of energy to be produced.

00:28:02: Uh, which today is, is, is mainly being produced with the, with the residues of

00:28:07: fossil, uh, processes and, and so on.

00:28:11: And, and we are still in the technological development to make them more green

00:28:17: and, and how to do this, uh, hydrogen also in more sustainable ways.

00:28:22: Um, so this is, is going on in parallel, but to look at already now at

00:28:30: places, um, systems where hydrogen can be used, um, is, um.

00:28:37: It is a great opportunity, but it's very, very complex.

00:28:40: So it, uh, uh but that could also play very much to to, to European

00:28:46: favor because we are used to dealing with complex, uh, questions, right?

00:28:50: And, and, uh, many, many different nations, many different industries,

00:28:54: many different markets, the national market situations.

00:28:58: Uh, and we should use this strength of being able to cooperate and cooperate

00:29:04: around, uh, bigger projects around, uh.

00:29:06: On hydrogen, for instance.

00:29:08: So to use hydrogen, uh, all, all the means we can to, to deploy them

00:29:14: in, in the current applications, in buses, in, in different vehicles.

00:29:18: And from there, go on to other types of, uh, of devices and,

00:29:22: and use our knowledge from.

00:29:25: From the early deployments to, um, to, to bring them into new markets

00:29:29: because, uh, when we break that, uh, the mysteries and some of the complexities

00:29:35: around hydrogen, the, the games are very, very important in the end.

00:29:39: Um, and, uh, and a green future and energy, abundant future.

00:29:44: So it is also this

00:29:46: Mix of energies in different, different sectors, I would say.

00:29:49: So to think short term and long term and, and, uh, and, uh, seize

00:29:54: the opportunities that present themselves at, at different horizons.

00:29:58: Um, yeah, I, I like to connect with your message.

00:30:02: Um, but demand by public procurement, I think that's, that's quite important.

00:30:07: I recently talked to Alois Flatz an Austrian investor, and he also mentioned

00:30:11: that that's one of the secrets why we have so big American Tech

00:30:15: companies because they really get got support by public demand early on.

00:30:20: So you're thinking that also European Commission will be a customer for

00:30:24: products of startups in the future?

00:30:25: Uh, even more so that really drive also the, um, scaling of

00:30:29: startups by being a customer?

00:30:31: It's that, that, that's part of your vision, how it could work in Europe?

00:30:35: The European Commission Yes, in itself, but more importantly, proposing, uh,

00:30:42: approaches so that all governments and all, uh, public sector in Europe

00:30:46: would be doing it because that's how we create really a, a, a big, big demand.

00:30:51: Um, and even by

00:30:53: Uh, by little, by little, increasing the part that public, uh, administrations in

00:30:59: Europe, uh, starting from the national, but it can also be at regional or even

00:31:03: sometimes at local level, though it's more challenging at local level of course,

00:31:07: but at least from the more central, the bigger, uh, procurement, uh, projects to

00:31:13: build in a little niche to begin with, which is for more experimental purposes

00:31:19: and, and to be open to, uh, procure

00:31:24: Uh, solutions that are maybe not fully mature yet. That need a ground

00:31:29: to test, to need to be put in, uh, in the public sector or in,

00:31:34: uh, in utilities in particular.

00:31:37: And energy, of course, is a, is a, is a big utility, public, private,

00:31:41: uh, um, actor, which have a huge role to bring in new innovations.

00:31:48: Uh.

00:31:50: Early on and help them mature and, and create a market for them in Europe.

00:31:54: So it is, it is something that we need to build in con with conscious in, uh, in,

00:32:01: in procurements and, and I would say in utilities in particular because, um, they,

00:32:07: they, they are so big and they can afford also to be, uh, um, a bit experimental.

00:32:15: And while, while buying maybe the, the big solution, they could also

00:32:19: put aside and buy a smaller one and find, uh, a niche to, to include,

00:32:24: uh, uh, something more innovative.

00:32:27: And also in the, in the way that, uh, these procurements are done

00:32:31: to build in continuous updates.

00:32:35: And you mentioned US and, and, and this is, these are some of the techniques

00:32:39: that they're using, that they are devoting a part of procurement budgets

00:32:44: and they actually oblige their, uh, companies to devote a part of

00:32:48: their budget to, to, uh, innovative, uh, uh, experimental solutions.

00:32:54: And, and this is how they create

00:32:57: Uh, make mature new technologies and create a market for them.

00:33:00: And, uh, and it is something we are not, we are not doing in Europe, uh, uh, a lot.

00:33:07: Uh, and, and this is what, uh, what in the Innovation Act, but also in

00:33:13: when, when reviewing, uh, public procurement frameworks in general,

00:33:16: which will come a bit later this year.

00:33:18: We are looking at how to, to seize that opportunity and, and have a gradual,

00:33:22: uh, development, uh, in this direction so that we, we, we, we use our own

00:33:28: taxpayers money to support our own growth and get a virtuous circle like this.

00:33:33: Uh.

00:33:33: That's, that is the aim.

00:33:34: Yeah.

00:33:34: That, that, it's, that's really important.

00:33:36: And, um, that also a great ask the European Commission is now doing, and

00:33:40: so, uh, asking some governments, national governments and the big corporates to

00:33:45: lead by example, I think that's, that's really a, um, a good way Forward. From

00:33:50: an European perspective: What's your view in Austria, uh, in the context

00:33:54: of innovation and venture capital?

00:33:56: Um, are there specific areas you would recommend Austria

00:33:59: should focus, um, in 2026, to, to move on uh, faster?

00:34:04: It is, um, I think to, to, to look at what is the national situation

00:34:09: with regard to all, to these strands that I, that I mentioned.

00:34:13: So it could be either to look at European or other con countries,

00:34:17: uh, example or to provide, uh, actually good, good experiences.

00:34:22: And, and when I was, uh.

00:34:24: In Austria, I, um, I understood that, uh, with regard to some of the company

00:34:29: law settings, for instance, for the startups and scale-ups, how they can

00:34:32: use, uh, stock options to, to, um, to reward their employees, uh, and to create

00:34:42: incentives for, for, uh, for attracting talent, uh, is is quite, uh, quite

00:34:48: advanced and well, well done in Austria.

00:34:50: There have been some, some, uh

00:34:53: reforms.

00:34:55: Um, and that's a good, really good important start, I would say.

00:34:59: And, um, something that in this case, others could look to Austria, to, to,

00:35:05: to adapt and, and align practices.

00:35:08: And, and it is really also the alignment between national practices that that

00:35:12: would be so important that we have.

00:35:15: When it comes to these stock options, for instance, that we, we have an approach

00:35:18: where they are, uh, where they are taxed at the same moment in time because now

00:35:25: we have different approaches where stock options are, are taxed, uh, when they

00:35:29: are kind of granted to an employee, but they didn't, they don't yet have

00:35:34: a value because they, they have to

00:35:37: they have then to, to wait for some, some years, uh, before they can actually

00:35:41: exercise them and get to the gain.

00:35:43: I mean, hopefully the gain when, when the startup has, has, has scaled, um,

00:35:47: whereas other countries are taxing and at the moment when, when they can, when

00:35:52: they are worth something, when they can be, uh, exchanged, uh, uh, against

00:35:57: the shares in, in, in the company.

00:36:00: So this is an example of where

00:36:02: having an aligned approach and, and rather this one where it is taxed when,

00:36:06: when there is a value in it, not to pay upfront something when, when you, you

00:36:10: know, you don't even know if, if you will be able to gain something from it.

00:36:15: The alignment on the timing, the alignment on, on the way this is treated

00:36:19: as much as possible is, is, is of huge importance because it attracts, uh, the

00:36:24: European attractiveness for investments and, uh, and it's important that

00:36:30: it's, it's aligned across countries because, uh, the scaling up will

00:36:33: have to happen across countries, not only in Austria, for instance.

00:36:36: It has to, to to have perspectives to go beyond.

00:36:40: So to continue on this path and, and, and, uh, discussion also

00:36:43: with the, with other countries, I think is, is very, very important.

00:36:48: And if that can happen at national level between, you know, Austria and its

00:36:53: neighboring countries or others, that is even better than having to discuss it

00:36:59: only in Brussels, you know, it's, uh, of course everybody

00:37:02: comes together in Brussels.

00:37:03: Ministers come together, the parliamentarians come together.

00:37:06: But, uh, having these discussions at the national and local level

00:37:10: are, are, are even more important.

00:37:12: So, um, I would say anything that that can be done in this

00:37:17: direction, um, would be good.

00:37:19: And, um.

00:37:21: And other countries can learn from Austria in this.

00:37:24: And, and Austria can learn other things from others like, uh, in how

00:37:27: to establish, uh, uh, scale up funds.

00:37:30: Uh, uh, that's also why, why you had the, um.

00:37:35: And the, the innovation days last year and maybe why you are organizing this

00:37:38: year's edition around, uh, the scale up.

00:37:40: Because that's something where, where you, you may learn good, uh,

00:37:44: practices from, from other countries and also how to go European.

00:37:48: And that's where our European Scale Up fund effort is, is so important.

00:37:52: We believe because, uh, it's part of this scaling quickly,

00:37:56: going European and going global.

00:37:58: So Europe is a stepping stone for the, for the global.

00:38:01: Maybe an, uh, maybe you could explain a little bit, um, how initiatives

00:38:05: like the European Scale Up Fund works together with other initiatives like

00:38:08: the European Startup Scale Up hubs, um, how, how they're integrated.

00:38:12: So in the whole, um, system of your policies.

00:38:15: Yes.

00:38:16: So this is really the, the scale up hubs, that's the, that's the ecosystem.

00:38:21: How we are looking that these hubs will

00:38:24: be connected.

00:38:26: Um, they already do it naturally to, to, to, to, to the extent they can.

00:38:32: They connect with hubs in other countries, um, because this is what technology

00:38:38: innovators, investors, uh, need.

00:38:41: But they are faced with certain hurdles because there are

00:38:45: still national approaches.

00:38:46: How can you combine funding from different countries?

00:38:49: How,

00:38:51: What kind of authorizations do you need?

00:38:54: The the, there are still many, many, many national rules for access to

00:38:58: scale up funding, for instance.

00:39:01: If it is from a national, uh, scale up fund, um, and that's where the

00:39:05: European Scale Up Fund comes in to give these cross border opportunities

00:39:09: really immediately while waiting for our regulatory rules to, to follow and,

00:39:14: and become more, uh, more harmonized.

00:39:17: But, but by experience that takes so much time that, uh.

00:39:22: Uh, therefore, uh, we have decided, and Commissioner Zaharieva has taken this

00:39:26: initiative to, to really do a Scale Up fund, to, to provide this financing

00:39:32: opportunity as soon as possible.

00:39:35: And then we have the hubs that are there.

00:39:37: They, they can rely on, on, on national funds, uh, or on international,

00:39:41: of course, that they attract.

00:39:44: Uh, but they have also expressed

00:39:46: the wish and the need to connect even more across borders because, uh, the

00:39:52: certain hubs may be more, uh, specialized in, you know, in health or others in

00:39:56: energy, and therefore it makes sense to even across borders, to send their most

00:40:01: promising energy ideas to Austria, for instance, instead of accepting doing

00:40:07: it within a national hub in another country, which is maybe not as, uh.

00:40:12: Um, as invested into, into this technology.

00:40:16: So, um, yes, the hubs are really the backbone, uh, of, uh, of national,

00:40:21: regional, uh, innovation efforts, but they need to be interconnected more and more.

00:40:26: And, and the Scale Up, uh, fund gives this, uh, in a very short time

00:40:31: additional, um, capital injection to to, to the scaling up phase.

00:40:36: So they really go hand in hand.

00:40:38: Now, Ann-Sofie, um, if I'm listening to your words, I may conclude, um,

00:40:44: that Europe is shifting its focus from creating startups really to

00:40:47: scale European and global champions.

00:40:49: That's really now another focus in European politics.

00:40:55: I, I'm Right?

00:40:55: So does, if it's really, so does the startup support will continue.

00:40:58: I mean, that is there, I mean, one has to, to always build from the basis and

00:41:02: build the next steps, but it doesn't mean to take away the, the basis.

00:41:04: Of course, I, um.

00:41:07: The, the, the startup seed funding, et cetera, will, will continue to be there.

00:41:12: And we have that in the European Innovation Council.

00:41:14: There are, there are, uh, very important, uh, grants and also grant equity

00:41:19: combinations to, to, to support this.

00:41:22: But now we have learned, and we have reached a certain good level with

00:41:26: that at EU level, but also nationally.

00:41:29: And we need to look at the next step.

00:41:30: So we need, yes, our efforts, let's say, are focused on improving and.

00:41:34: Great.

00:41:35: Uh, yeah.

00:41:36: So now we have talked a lot about tools.

00:41:38: Um, may we now look, look a little bit ahead.

00:41:41: Europe is navigating in increasing competitive global environment, especially compared

00:41:45: to the US and, and China. The world

00:41:47: orders is changing rapidly.

00:41:49: Uh, a lot of disruptions coming up, um, from politics.

00:41:53: Looking ahead to 2026 and beyond, which energy and innovation trends

00:41:57: should you be, founders and investors be paying closest attention to?

00:42:00: Um, what's your perspective on that?

00:42:01: So.

00:42:02: Uh, what should the founders and also investor have in mind,

00:42:05: uh, in doing their business?

00:42:06: So to, to have in mind that, um, well, at least what we are trying

00:42:11: to, to, to help them with is to, um, to communicate to, to people.

00:42:20: So savers and people, citizens are, are the ones that, uh, that, uh,

00:42:25: generate a lot of savings in, um, in Europe, uh, and have a lot of

00:42:30: savings, which are sitting with the

00:42:33: big institutional investors normally, um, insurance, pension and and, and so on.

00:42:39: And to create the awareness that, uh, these are savings, we should use them

00:42:48: and direct them to support our founders, uh, so that they don't have to go to

00:42:55: get the investment from European pension funds via, via us, which is what happens.

00:43:01: Today, this is the medium term maybe, but, uh, very, very important.

00:43:06: Um, and not easy, uh, to tackle.

00:43:10: But as you mentioned that the geopolitical context and, um, the

00:43:14: economical context that comes out of it makes it actually more, uh, more

00:43:20: feasible and maybe more easy to attain.

00:43:23: In, in the years to come, then it has been, uh, that it has been before

00:43:28: because we will be able to show and we are actually already showing, but it

00:43:32: doesn't have yet, uh, very much visibility is that the, the startup and scale up

00:43:36: funding we have at EU level, which is the European Innovation Council now,

00:43:41: and, and soon this Scale Up fund that I mentioned, um, they are generating

00:43:47: a lot of return on investment.

00:43:48: In some cases, even better return than, than if you go to, uh, US uh, fund.

00:43:55: Uh, but it's still not at that big scale that is being a lot talked about.

00:44:00: But now that we are attracting more and more, uh, investments into these

00:44:04: European efforts, it'll soon become more visible and more also attractive,

00:44:11: and everybody are gonna understand that it's actually profitable

00:44:14: to invest in Europe and in European founders. Ann-Sofie, if you have one wish.

00:44:19: What would you like to change in European innovation

00:44:23: ecosystem by 2026 and why?

00:44:25: I think we still, we still think very much national in Europe.

00:44:30: Um, while we want companies to be able to, to grow and go European, um,

00:44:37: and I think we still need to change

00:44:39: our mindsets really change our mindsets in Europe and, and I think, um, at least

00:44:45: the neighboring countries, but pref, preferably, um, even, even European.

00:44:50: And, and to be open, uh, for, in, in the north of Europe to be open to

00:44:54: innovations that, uh, that happen and come from southern Europe and, and,

00:44:58: and those that are on the eastern side from the west and, and, and so on.

00:45:01: Um, so I think this change of mindset, openness, and entrepreneurship.

00:45:07: Also from, uh, from the research stage, uh, understanding of entrepreneurship

00:45:13: also by citizens at large is, uh, this is the basis for everything.

00:45:18: It's to have support from, not only from your ecosystem, but also from from the

00:45:22: wider society is, is, is really key.

00:45:27: Um.

00:45:28: Okay.

00:45:28: Thanks.

00:45:29: Thanks a lot.

00:45:29: So I think that's really have, have a European venture mindsets.

00:45:32: Before we wrap up, uh, we always like, uh, like to leave our listeners

00:45:36: with something that they can, uh, take onto their, their own work.

00:45:39: Um, is there one message you want to, to have founders, investors, or

00:45:43: policy makers to carry on into 2026?

00:45:46: What would it be?

00:45:49: Be brave.

00:45:50: Be brave.

00:45:52: Um, then thanks a lot Ann-Sofie song, um, for our interview.

00:45:57: Thanks very much for sharing your insights and giving us behind the

00:46:00: scenes view of how you'll be shaping its innovation and energy future.

00:46:03: And to our listeners, thank you for joining us on Empowering Tomorrow.

00:46:07: Stay tuned for more conversations with the voices shaping the future of energy.

00:46:12: If you have enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe to Empowering

00:46:16: Tomorrow and leave us a review.

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